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MarkUK
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Date Posted:24/11/2018 09:15:00Copy HTML

I like to think that I'm pretty knowledgeable on geography, but a few weeks ago I leant something that had unaccountably eluded me for 56 years.

It began when I was looking for suitable anniversaries to enter on here, and I found this -

24 November 1918, 100 years ago today. Two minesweepers built for France at Fort William on Lake Superior for mine clearance duties across the Atlantic in the English Channel sank on their maiden voyage on the lake with the loss of all 78 crew (76 French, two Canadians). Three were built at Fort William, the Cerisoles, the Inkerman and the Sebastopol. They sailed together eastwards for Sault Ste Marie when they were caught in an overnight storm. Only the Sebastopol made it, the other two disappeared without trace, no bodies nor wreckage have ever been found, it was the largest loss of life in a single incident on Lake Superior. 

When I first read about this I thought it must be wrong, a glance at the map told me that Fort William is over 900 miles from the sea as the crow flies and anyway how would they get there? But looking into it I found that Lake Superior is linked to the ocean by the other lakes via a series of rivers and canals, yet I never knew that. In fact Duluth Minnesota 1000 miles from the Atlantic has a sea port! The voyage just to get to/from salt water must be well over 1500 miles! How did I not know this? When did this sea route open? Duluth must be the furthest sea port from the actual sea in the world! Why has nobody told me all this? 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 12:26:43Copy HTML

You never asked me
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 12:52:15Copy HTML

Pete lives there and he never breathed a word in the 15 years we've shared a site together, damned unfriendly I call it.
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 02:17:21Copy HTML

The St. Lawrence Seaway opened in 1959 with a series of canals, locks, rivers, & lakes that opened the middle of North America to sea going vessels. That officially killed the port of Buffalo N.Y. Before that lake ships had to stop in Buffalo, unload their cargo & transfer it to railroads for further distribution. At the time Buffalo was the second largest railroad center in the U.S. Only Chicago was bigger, & Buffalo was the largest flour milling center in the world. After the Seaway opened large ships just passed the port of Buffalo without stopping & it gradually died.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 08:23:07Copy HTML

When did Lake Superior gain access to the sea, they were building ocean going vessels there in 1918.
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 08:44:42Copy HTML

Mark, the ocean going vessels you referred to were mine sweepers which are shallow draft. The main obstacle for large ships travelling inland on the Great Lakes was Niagara Falls. The Welland Canal solved that problem in 1829 but parts of the St. Lawrence would not accommodate deep draft ships until the St. Lawrence Seaway was completed in 1959.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 09:29:58Copy HTML

I did do a piece many moons ago on the Welland Canel. Someone asked about it (might have been Flash) and I had posted pictures and all. It was the place we visited on our way to Niagara Falls in grade 6 where one of my classmates managed to fall in. He fell luckly on the lock side which was full of water so only dropped 15 feet before hitting the water. If he had fallen on the low side which had a large freighter in it, the fall would have been at least a 100 feet just to the ships deck. Tommy is pointing out without realizing it how big and dangerous the Great lakes can be with storms that rivel that of any Ocean.

LIke Gorden Lightfoot said, the Lake they call Gitchee Goomee never gives up it's dead. (Lake Superior) Very cold water and bodies just seem to sink and never float to the surface. Both the Welland Canal and the St. Lawerance Sea Way did a lot to open up ship traffic from the lake head at Thunder Bay right on down through four of the Great lakes to the St Lawerence River and open Ocean.

I would post videos to explain it easier but I'm not allowed like other people here are.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:24/11/2018 10:06:04Copy HTML

Pete, I rode my bike many times up to the Welland Canal to watch the freighters go thru the locks. Best time was after dark & we used to stop at a local bar where they had draft beer with salt shakers on the bar & 21 shrimp in a basket for $1.85.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 12:49:55Copy HTML

Always enjoyed a bit of salt with my draft beer Tommy. Actually a lot of places that sold it also had some kind of salty product like pretzels,potatoe chips are salted peanuts at the bar or on the tables. It was also a way of selling more beer because the salt would add to your thirst.

I don't know if they had run into the same problems digging the Welland canal like they had with the Erie or Redeau Canel with malaria. If they did I haven't heard much on it. When we hear about malaria we always associate it with a jungle environment in some foreign country but I yes it could also be picked up in the States and Canada. My father came down with it in Sicily during the war and he use to get the odd flare up even after the war. He wan't allowed to donate blood because of it.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 08:42:13Copy HTML

A lot of people died of the ague in GB a few hundred years ago, Oliver Cromwell died of the ague in 1658, it was a form of malaria found in mild climates, long since eradicated here. 


You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 01:07:53Copy HTML

Enjoyed a lot of that at the Stevensville Hotel in Stevensville Ontario, Pete. See "ville" eh. I am sure that watering hole is long gone by now.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 09:19:14Copy HTML

I tried looking it up Tommy but can't find anything on it. A lot of the old hotel taverns are gone now and any that stayed had to convert to some kind of sports bar just to keep open. Have you ever gone around a bit further on the north side of Lake Erie to Port Dover where they hold bike day. It is held on Friday the 13th and riders come from all over to attend each year. Not as crazy as Sturgess but they do bring in bands etc for entertainment. Looking at some old pictures of Crystal Beach at Fort Erie during it's hay day with American coming for the day.




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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 09:29:58Copy HTML



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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 09:35:51Copy HTML

Now those are some fond memories, Pete. Made many a trip on the Canadiana from Buffalo to Crystal Beach. Great picture of the comet as well. French fries with malt vinegar & those fried cakes with powdered sugar are unforgettable. Stevensville was on the way to the beach. Also spent many a fun summer day at Niagara on the Lake. A family friend lived there year round. A Canadian who took me as a youngster to the local Canadian Legion. Saw my first pipe band there.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 09:40:16Copy HTML

Was still a popular beach after the amusement park there closed.


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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 10:06:14Copy HTML

I found that to be the strangest thing the first time I visited Canada, salt shakers on the tables to put in your beer. This was back in 79 in North Bay and the rules in the bars were.... no standing up and drinking. No second drink on the table until you had finished the one you had. No service at the bar, only waiter service. Seemed mighty oppressive to us British Piss-tanks not to have a few different beers each on the table at one time, or leaning on the bar all night if you wanted to. Another newby was pitchers, something I'd never seen before.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:25/11/2018 11:41:57Copy HTML

Now those are some fond memories, Pete. Made many a trip on the Canadiana from Buffalo to Crystal Beach. Great picture of the comet as well. French fries with malt vinegar & those fried cakes with powdered sugar are unforgettable. Stevensville was on the way to the beach. Also spent many a fun summer day at Niagara on the Lake. A family friend lived there year round. A Canadian who took me as a youngster to the local Canadian Legion. Saw my first pipe band there. If I went to Crystal Beach as a kid I was too young to remember it. My family use to go though and the wifes also and make a day of it and picnic. My niece has a place she rents out a couple of streets in from the beach. I guess it was two years ago that we took one of our Sunday drives down to Niagara Falls and then along first to Niagara on the Lake which my wife really liked and then on to Crystal Beach where I took some pictures of the beach at sunset. We still enjoy malt vinegar on our fish and chips. Those fried cakes sound a lot like  what we now call beaver tails because that's what they are shaped like. They are big in the Ottawa area especially when skating on the Rideau Canal where they have stands set up to buy them with a coffee. I think Obama enjoyed them while up doing a walk about in the Ottawa Market. He ended up taking a bag full home with him. I'm surprised Tim's hasn't picked them up. Talking about Tim's my wife and daughter just came in from doing some Christmas shopping and to shut me up brung me a large 4 by 4. I surprised Tommy that you didn't make the leap and retire on the Canadian side. Grand Bend and Sauble Beach were also popular beaches in summer. They are on the Canadian side of Lake Huron. You can follow the coast road right up to and out on to the Bruce Peninsula to Tobermory.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:26/11/2018 12:28:50Copy HTML

I found that to be the strangest thing the first time I visited Canada, salt shakers on the tables to put in your beer. This was back in 79 in North Bay and the rules in the bars were.... no standing up and drinking. No second drink on the table until you had finished the one you had. No service at the bar, only waiter service. Seemed mighty oppressive to us British Piss-tanks not to have a few different beers each on the table at one time, or leaning on the bar all night if you wanted to. Another newby was pitchers, something I'd never seen before.


Another Ontario rule Major was not picking up your beer or drink and walking over to another table. The waitess had to do it for you. It stemed from someone doing it and spelling it over another customer and a fight breaking out. Ontario had some what I find odd drinking rules and each of the 10 Provinces also have different rules. A lot of the taverns had two entrances. One for the guys and one for women and their escorts. When you got inside was the funny part because it was all one big area. Some of the places in the Praire Provinces have after hour sales at the bar when closing where you can pick up a 24 pack of beer when you are leaving the place. In the east coast you can buy a normal sized beer or in the quart size. Jugs became more and more popular and were cheaper to buy that buying one at a time. A single customer never seemed to buy one but more if their was more than one of you at the table.

I use to drink draft with with a bit of salt and the next morning when my head was the size of a water melon I use to blame the salt for it and not the beer.

I spent a few months in North Bay on different courses on the Air Base . I found it a bit of a red neck area with good fishing and a lot of natives who seemed to be band from most of the taverns because they had problems with their drinking. There seems to be the odd different rule in different Provinces when it comes to traffic laws. In Ontario and in most Provinces you can make a right hand turn on a red light if you come to a full stop first and the way is clear to turn. In New Brunswick I was doing just that and had a copper behind me. I no sooner turn and I have flashing lights behind me.

I had Ontario Plates on my car so got away with it but was told by the Mountie you can't make a right turn on a red light in New Brunswick.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:26/11/2018 11:00:30Copy HTML

I C the pier is still there, but condos have replace the rides. The memories of the good times of childhood remain tho.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:27/11/2018 12:04:52Copy HTML

You are correct Tommy and here's a picture I took there a couple of summers ago.


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Re:Something new

Date Posted:27/11/2018 12:08:36Copy HTML

Did you notice on the paper clipping the price of the boat ride over was only 30 cents Tommy.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:27/11/2018 12:24:29Copy HTML

And that was including the return trip back.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:27/11/2018 10:45:54Copy HTML

The 30 cent deal was a bit before my time, Pete. I cannot remember the fare but it was still cheap. My mother told me of the time when there was two Crystal Beach Boats (as we called them). The Americana & Canadiana which were sister ships. I only remember one, the Canadiana which plied the waters of my youth. It was a wonderful trip over & back & they let us kids go to the engine room & watch the old girl's innards propel her thru the water. They also had big band cruises with Guy Lombardo & a local boy, Harold Austin headlining.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:27/11/2018 11:22:51Copy HTML

The 30 cent deal was a bit before my time, Pete. Are you sure Tommy. lol


Guy Lombardo was very big in both Canada and the States with his Royal Canadians. The used to play a lot at Sunnyside Park on the Toronto water front were they had a permanent dance hall an amusement park set up. He also played a lot to full crowds at the Canadian National Exibition which is roughly 2 miles east of Sunnyside.

It was his band that all the radio stations in North America listed to when welcoming in the New Year. It was Louie Armstrong's favour band to listen to.

The bang appeared in at least three movies besides the records they produced.

Besides their two 78s for Gennett in 1924, the Royal Canadians made more than 45 78s 1927-31 for Columbia and about 40 1932-4 for Brunswick. The orchestra recorded 1934-57 for Decca and then for Capitol, although Decca continued to issue previously unreleased material after 1957. The Royal Canadians' recordings 1924-42 are listed in Brian Rust's Complete Dance Band Discography 1917-1942 (New Rochelle 1975). Many of these and later recordings were re-issued 1961-5 in a four-part series entitled The Sweetest Music This Side of Heaven: 1926-32 (Decca 78962), 1932-9 (Decca 74229), 1941-8 (Decca 74328), and 1949-54 (Decca 74329).

At the time of Guy Lombardo's death, about 100 LPs had been released comprising pop songs of the day (many written by Carmen Lombardo, and many more introduced to the public by the Lombardo orchestra), show tunes, folksongs, Italian and other national songs, and light classical pieces - either performed individually or arranged in medleys. The recordings of 'Winter Wonderland,' ' The Third Man Theme,' 'Easter Parade,' and 'Humoresque' were million sellers. By the early 1970s total sales exceeded 300 million, confirming the status of Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians as the most popular dance band of its day.

 Guy also liked to race speed boats and did very well at it.



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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 12:28:02Copy HTML

Guy Lombardo & his Royal Canadians, the sweetest music this side of heaven. As a child every New Year's Eve I watched him bring in the new year. He played often at Crystal Beach Dance Hall & once in a while on the Canadiana. I have been to the CNE many times but never saw him play there.
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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 01:17:15Copy HTML

I know my father and mother use to go to both the Sunnyside dance hall and the Band Shell at the CNE to dance and hear them play but that would have been just after the war. I think the roller coast at Sunnyside ended up at Disneyland California. Funny story about the coaster there. My father and mother went on it and my father commented on his ride after. He said in the whole five years at war he never felt so close to death as he did the first time he rode on the Sunnyside roller coaster.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 01:25:12Copy HTML

Sunnyside 1924. All gone now with the Gardener expressway replacing it.


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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 01:40:20Copy HTML

Today we live in a world where people are extremely mobile and well-connected via social media. Toronto in the 1940s was vastly different. Few households owned a phone, due to the high rental costs, and cell phones were science fiction, relegated to the comic sections of the newspapers. Automobiles were prohibitively expensive, and were not being manufactured since the companies were busy assembling tanks and vehicles for the war in Europe and the Pacific. Adding to the difficulties of owning a car, rubber tires and gasoline were rationed.

Thus, 1940s Toronto was a narrower world than that of today. People tended to purchase or rent houses within close proximity to friends and relatives, so they were able to walk to each others’ houses to converse about the trials and joys of life. Chatting with neighbours often occurred over a fence in the back garden, particularly on Mondays, which was washing day for most families. Corner stores and greeting neighbours when walking along the sidewalk also provided opportunities for exchanging information. For more important news, such as the war front, most households owned a radio. To keep in touch with family members who lived beyond the neighbourhood, a visit by streetcar or bus was necessary. If they were further afield, hand-written letters or postcards were sent.

Because owning an automobile was beyond the reach of most households, the majority of families were confined to the city. If they wished a day-trip away from the neighbourhood, in summer they visited places such as High Park, the Humber Valley, Scarborough Beach, and Kew Beach. Centre Island and Hanlan’s Point were other popular summer destinations, a ferry ride across the harbour considered an added attraction. However, in my family, the favourite day-trip was a visit to the Sunnyside Amusement Park and the sandy beach nestled beside it. Even on the hottest day, the breezes from the lake were cool and refreshing. 

We always arrived at Sunnyside via the Queen Streetcar, disembarking at Roncesvalles Avenue, where it intersected with King and Queen Streets. Walking across the Sunnyside railway bridge, we descended the iron stairs to the amusement park below. As we walked past the rides, which included an enormous rollercoaster named the Flyer, I longed to be of an age to climb aboard them. Alas, I was confined to the merry-go-round, now usually referred to as a carousel. Where Sunnyside’s rides were located is today where the Gardiner Expressway exists.

In 1912, Toronto’s city councillors voted to erect an amusement park at Sunnyside, to the west of the downtown, beside lake Ontario. Projected to cost $19 million, work began in 1913, but construction stopped when the First World War began in 1914. After the war, the project resumed, and over 1400 acres of land were reclaimed from the lake. The final stage was to landscape the newly created land with top soil and sodding.

By 1919, as work on Sunnyside proceeded, it was evident that a new roadway was required, which meant replacing the old Lakeshore Road. Completed within a year, the 54-foot-wide, four-lane Lakeshore Boulevard West was opened. Two year later, on June 28, 1922, the amusement park was officially inaugurated by Mayor Mcguire. At the time, Sunnyside Amusement Park had not been completed, but a few of the rides and the Bathing Pavilion were ready for visitors. The Bathing Pavilion, designed by Alfred Chapman, costing $300,000, accommodated 7700 bathers, and had a roof garden where 400 guests could purchase refreshments and snacks. To enter the pool, the cost was 25 cents for adults and 15 cents for children. However, there was a 1100’ free bathing area to the south of the Pavilion, and another at the western end of Sunnyside, close to the east bank of the Humber River.  

After its official opening in 1922, thousands strolled the boardwalk at Sunnyside, swam in the waters of the lake, or dived into the new swimming pool. The Palais Royal, built at a cost of $80,000, also opened the same year. Walter Dean’s Boat Building Factory was in the basement level, so only the main floor was occupied by the dance pavilion. However, due to the dance hall’s success, it was not long before it encompassed the entire structure. It became one of the most popular dance venues in Toronto and featured many of the popular big bands. Its main competition was Palace Pier.  

During the next few year, the amusement park was completed. Popular features were the concession stands, dance pavilion, and an open-air theatre called the Band Stand. The annual Easter Parade was held on the boardwalk at Sunnyside. The Miss Toronto beauty contests and women’s softball games were also well attended. The Sunnyside rollercoaster, named the Flyer, was a wooden structure. I rode it many times in the 1950s and can still recall how the cars swayed from side to side as they descended from the highest section of track. This added greatly to the sense of danger.

The golden era of Sunnyside was the 1930s and 1940s. During the late-1940s and early-1950s, automobiles became more affordable and families began journeying north of the city to escape the heat of a Toronto summer. The lakes of Muskoka and the beaches of Georgian Bay were the most popular.

In 1955, the Toronto Harbour Commission ordered the demolition of Sunnyside. By the end of 1956, the summer retreat that previous generations had known and loved, was but a memory. The land is now beneath the Gardiner Expressway and the widened Lakeshore Boulevard.

This is were Marilyn Bell came ashore in 1954 after swimming across Lake Ontario.

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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 01:42:15Copy HTML

Marilyn Bell waded into the frigid waters of Lake Ontario at Youngstown, NY, at 11:07 p.m. Wednesday, September 8, 1954. It wasn’t supposed to be a race, but she made it into one. The Canadian National Exhibition had offered $10,000 to American swimmer Florence Chadwick to swim the lake. Many thought it was unfair not to include Canadians in the event. Only two others took up the challenge, Winnie Roach Leuszla and a 16-year old student, Marilyn Bell.

Swimmer Marilyn Bell, c. 1950s (photo by Jack Marshall, courtesy Canada's Sports Hall of Fame/X981.32.1.50).

Marilyn’s coach Gus Ryder was in a boat ahead of her. It was dark and no one knew where the other two swimmers were. No one ashore on the other side had any idea of the drama that was to unfold as Marilyn battled 4-metre waves, lamprey eels, exhaustion and numbness. Ryder shouted encouragement and fed his swimmer corn syrup from a cup.

At dawn, Marilyn had covered 22 kilometres. She did not know it but she had already eclipsed Chadwick, who had become violently ill in the choppy water. When Marilyn became numb and glassy-eyed at 10:30 a.m. Ryder took out a black board and wrote on it “FLO IS OUT.” Soon Leuszla was pulled out as well. Marilyn’s best friend Joan Cooke shouted encouragement from the boat and Marilyn started swimming again. Meanwhile, word was spreading not only across Toronto but across all of Canada. A flotilla of media appeared and tens of thousands— eventually 250,000— gathered on shore.

At 6:30 in the evening, Marilyn reached her limit and Ryder ignored her father’s wishes to pull her out. He asked Joan to swim beside her friend. Driven west by the current to Sunnyside, Marilyn finally touched the breakwater at 8:06 p.m. Because of the currents she had actually swum 64 kilometres. Pandemonium broke loose as Marilyn came ashore, the undisputed heroine of all Canada. Proud Canadians showered her with more than $50,000 in prizes and gifts.


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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 01:56:39Copy HTML

More of Sunnyside 1929 the pool and sand beach.




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Re:Something new

Date Posted:28/11/2018 02:14:55Copy HTML

The Gardener Expressway replaced it eh? Looks like it was close to where the CNE is now & the Toronto Sportsman's Show.
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