History Lovers
historylovers Aimoo Forum List | Ticket | Today | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
historylovers > General > General Discussion Go to subcategory:
Author Content
MarkUK
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Date Posted:21/06/2019 06:16:58Copy HTML

100 years ago today, on 21 June 1919, the most dramatic and controversial incident of the post-Armistice pre-Treaty period took place - the scuttling of the German High Seas Fleet.

At the end of the war the Allies decided that the majority of the German Navy's vessels, including all of its submarines, would be interned. The submarines went to Harwich while the surface ships went to the Royal Navy base at Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands north of Scotland. The Germans were allowed to retain a limited number of vessels, but the majority, including the largest and most modern ships, were ordered to sail into captivity at Scapa Flow. By January 1919 74 ships had dropped anchor in GB's most northerly naval base.

Over the following months the number of men was steadily reduced to a skeleton care and maintenance crew numbering around 1800. Then in the middle of June came the news that a peace treaty was imminent and that the entire fleet at Scapa was to be surrendered to the Allies for either disposal or transfer to a new flag. The commander of the German Fleet Read-Admiral Reuter decided that none of his ships would be handed over and made plans for every one of them to be scuttled together at a given time - 1120hrs 21 June.

Accordingly at the appointed time the seacocks and flood valves were opened on every ship. To ensure that the ships sank all the internal door were wedged open and portholes either opened or loosened. The crew then began to abandon ship.

Once the British realized what was happening panic set in. Some ships were taken in tow and beached in shallow water, others were boarded by British sailors who attempted to stop the sinkings. In the ensuing chaos around 25 German sailors were shot of whom nine died including the captain of the battleship Markgraf.

By late afternoon 52 of the 74 ships had been sunk (15 battleships/battlecruisers, five cruisers and 32 destroyers). Of the others that had been beached or sunk in shallow water they were all salvaged and awarded to the Allies to be used as targets, none were recommissioned as active warships. Most of the other wrecks were salvaged for scrap in the 1920s and 30s. Seven remain on the sea bed at Scapa Flow to this day, a popular site for divers.

300px-SMS_Bayern_sinking.jpg

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
shula Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:1808
  • Posts:1808
  • From:USA
  • Register:24/11/2008 12:06:54

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:22/06/2019 12:32:58Copy HTML

Defeat must have been humiliating for the Rear-Admiral and one can't really blame him for wanting to scuttle his fleet.  They were probably excellent ships, though, so their loss to the Allies was great too.
"It is forbidden to spit on cats in plague-time." -Albert Camus-
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:22/06/2019 07:57:53Copy HTML

Although officially outraged at the act many Royal Naval officers said privately they would have done the same in Reuter's position. He was repatriated in January 1920.

Many of the ships would have been valuable assets to the victors, some were less than three years old. It did however spare the Allies the difficulty of dividing up the fleet, GB in particular was keen to retain its dominance of the seas which could have been challenged if other nations were awarded the more modern German ships.

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:23/06/2019 01:09:22Copy HTML

GB in particular was keen to retain its dominance of the seas which could have been challenged if other nations were awarded the more modern German ships.


If they had given them to Canada or Australia how would that have challenged GB's dominance.

We could have put them to good use during the Korea conflict instead of showing up balls naked.

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:23/06/2019 07:55:01Copy HTML

Warships 35 or more years old wouldn't have been much use in the Korean War.

Most of the German vessels at Scapa Flow would have been awarded to the European powers, we didn't want to see France or Italy getting new state-of-the art dreadnoughts. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:23/06/2019 08:23:10Copy HTML

100 years ago today, on 23 June 1919, the German Naval Airship Division attempted to emulate their seaborn colleagues by destroying their airships to prevent them from being taken over by the Allies.

At the end of the war the German Navy was left with 14 Zeppelins, some of which were old and used only as training ships. They were disarmed, their gas bags deflated and were hung up in their hangars across Germany.

When news of the scuttling at Scapa Flow reached the airship crews they acted together to destroy their charges. At the bases of Nordholz and Wittmundhaven seven Zeppelins were wrecked by having the suspension tackle released so the 40 ton airships crashed to the floor breaking the internal structure beyond repair. None had flown for eight months so the damage was considerable. However the remaining seven Zeppelins survived, at Ahlhorn the plot was uncovered before the crew could act while at Seddin and Seerappen no action was taken.

The seven airships were subsequently awarded to the Allies; two to GB, two to Italy and one each to France, Belgium and Japan.

images.jpg

   


You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:24/06/2019 11:36:43Copy HTML

Warships 35 or more years old wouldn't have been much use in the Korean War.

Most of the German vessels at Scapa Flow would have been awarded to the European powers, we didn't want to see France or Italy getting new state-of-the art dreadnoughts.  They would have all had massive guns capable of firing great distances still and so I think they would have been a great accede to help try and slow the Chinese advance down with.


MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:25/06/2019 01:22:14Copy HTML

I've had a look and more WW I era battleships than I thought survived into the 1950s, however they were all reduced to guardships or training ships, none would have been thought good enough to be at sea in a full war scenario.
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Scapa Flow

Date Posted:25/06/2019 06:29:02Copy HTML

These ships wouldn't have had to fight sea battles but only serve as gun platforms. The North Koreans and the Chinese didn't have ships to oppose them with.

Copyright © 2000- Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.