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tommytalldog
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Date Posted:15/11/2018 05:05:29Copy HTML

 Slavery & Serfdom are both forms of human bondage, there are however some critical differences. Slaves were considered property that could be brought, traded, sold or auctioned. Serfs were not considered to be property but they were still not free. They were bonded to the property on which they worked. Property owned by feudal lords & the serfs had to work the lord's fields, mines, & forests & they could not leave his land without his permission. In their additon to their service to the feudal lord, serfs could farm their own fields & gardens but had to pay the lord taxes based on the assessed value of the land on which they worked. Taxes were paid with agricultural produce rather than cash. A woman of the serf class who wished to marry someone outside of her lord's lands was required to pay a fee for her lost labor.

For most of us slavery in the antebellum south of the U.S. seems like ancient history, & European Serfdom seems like something out of the middle ages like Ivanhoe or Robin Hood. In England & Wales serfdom died out during the late middle ages with historians attributing its demise to the "Black Death" which reached Europe in 1347. The result of the carnage was a severe labor shortage which allowed the serfs to negotiate better working conditions in the form of uban work or yeoman farmers. However this was not true in eastern Europe where serfdom continued well into the 19th Century.

The effect on the U.S. is an often forgotten history lesson. As the serfs finally achieved their freedom in central & eastern Europe, they also lost their livelihoods. The were free but landless with the land still belonging to the overlords. So in the mid to late 19th Century these former serfs migrated to the United States for a chance to won land or work in American industry.

Live respected, die regretted
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:15/11/2018 07:08:11Copy HTML

At schooI remember being taught about the Emancipation of the Serfs by Tsar Alexander II in Russia in 1863.
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:15/11/2018 08:31:45Copy HTML

Tsar Alexander II signed an edict in 1861 to free Russia's 23 million serfs. The edict did not take effect until 1866. Russian author Leo Tolstoy (War & Peace) tried to free his serfs unsuccessfully as they thought he was trying to trick them. Instead Tolstoy focused on their education by establishing skools & writing educational texts. Tolstoy described this project as the supreme goal of his life.
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:15/11/2018 09:38:50Copy HTML

If you wanted to embarrass me you've succeeded, I've got a date wrong, my hottest subject.
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:16/11/2018 01:18:35Copy HTML

People use to get sent to the tower for less Mark.lol

majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:16/11/2018 01:29:46Copy HTML

My hottest subjects used to be dates too Mark. All in the past now. Warrrrr when I was a boy!
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 01:31:30Copy HTML

Tsar Alexander II signed an edict in 1861 to free Russia's 23 million serfs. The edict did not take effect until 1866. Russian author Leo Tolstoy (War & Peace) tried to free his serfs unsuccessfully as they thought he was trying to trick them. Instead Tolstoy focused on their education by establishing skools & writing educational texts. Tolstoy described this project as the supreme goal of his life.


Tsar Alexander II is a good example of what can happen to reformers. His reforms were too much for some and not enough for others, so he made many enemies. On the day he signed into law a new raft of reforms he was assassinated by a anarchist unhappy with the slow progress of reform. His successor abandoned the programme, plunging Russia back 20 years.

Once reform is offered it makes people want more, sometimes it's better not to offer it. We saw it over here on a far lesser scale. Tony Blair restored the Scottish Parliament in 1999 hoping it would satisfy Nationalists, but all it did was make them want more, hence the Independence Referendum in 2014. Although the Nationalists lost and there won't be another vote for many years (if at all) the clamour for a second vote won't go away. It can all be tracked back to the well intentioned establishment of the Scottish Parliament 20 years ago.

PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 07:40:11Copy HTML

With Scotland didn't the majourity vote in favour of staying in the EU?

majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 07:44:43Copy HTML

The Scots will do everything opposite to what the English do, even if it's totally detrimental to their interests. Tom will tell you that.
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 08:18:08Copy HTML

Maybe they just recognized the benifits more than others Major.

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 08:31:07Copy HTML

A curious bunch the Scottish Nationalists, they'd rather submit to domination from Brussels than they would from Westminster. 
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 09:37:12Copy HTML

I talked to some older ones in Scotland that voted yes and they are sayng it was the younger ones in the country that voted for the no side and they weren't too pleased with them for doing it.

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 09:50:24Copy HTML

Broadly speaking it's an age thing. Most young people, brought up in the bosom of the EU, voted to stay in. Old farts like Major wanted out.
You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
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Re:SLAVERY V SERFDOM

Date Posted:18/11/2018 10:27:30Copy HTML

The older Scots told me the same. These were the ones that contacted me from Neilston ref my Great uncle who had been killed in the Great War and asking permission to use the pictures I had in ancestry.

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