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tommytalldog
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Date Posted:24/11/2019 10:24:20Copy HTML

 In 1859 Darwin published Origin of the Species.

Live respected, die regretted
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #181
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 06:54:07Copy HTML

Food was hard to come by at that time in Britain and especially meat of any kind.

I guess I shouldn’t mention the time my father liberated a couple of chickens from a farmer who had too many. He noticed that by the time he got back to his tank line that the local police were already there asking questions. So he buries them feathers and all and digs them up the next day and cooks them. Desperate measures for desperate times l guess.


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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 08:57:13Copy HTML

22 January 1879 - The Battles of Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift.

Two of the most famous battles of GB's colonial wars. British troops invaded Zululand in January 1879 in three columns. One reached Isandhlwana where a portion of it marched off in search of the Zulu army leaving around 1800 British and native levies in camp. The camp was attacked on 22 January by up to 20,000 Zulus who overran the camp in a few hours. Almost all the European troops were killed, 1277 to be precise. most of the 500 survivors were native levies who fled as soon as the Zulus were sighted. The Zulus lost about 1500 killed and wounded.

Later that day around 3500 Zulus attacked the mission station and hospital at Rorke's Drift which contained 139 men. In a battle that lasted until the early hours the Zulus were driven off leaving 16 British dead. 351 dead Zulus were found in the vicinity and more would have died of their wounds. 

The films Zulu and Zulu Dawn tell the story of the battles in which 14 Victoria Crosses were awarded, 11 for the defence of Rorke's Drift and three for Isandhlwana, two posthumously. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #183
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 11:36:37Copy HTML

Rounding off the act of prohibition I couldn't finish without a mention of its most infamous creation, ie Al Capone. There is more myth and legend surrounds this man than in a Tolkien book. All dictators know that you must have the ordinary man on the street's consent and appreciation to succeed and Capone did that with simple gestures like soup kitchens and such like. He organised a successful self promotional industry amongst the man in the street and just blackmailed, bribed  and threatened the upper echelons. But, what I want to mention is the unknown person who was really responsible for his downfall and it wasn't Elliot Ness and his untouchables, or an undaunted incorruptible Chief of Police, or a crusading politician but the wonderfully titled Mabel Walker Willebrandt, who ten years before she nailed him was a housewife in California. This remarkable girl happened to get bored sweeping floors and making beds, so she enrolled in night classes at the University of California and emerged in 1916 with a degree in law. What does our heroin do now, fight town hall corruption? Represent the rich and famous? Take up the lucrative world of litigation or the machination of Hollywood? Narrrrr, she represented battered wives and prostitutes, ditching her husband by divorce along the way and after five years she had made such a name for herself as a crusader, she was invited to Washington to become Assistant Attorney General. Her job now was to enforce prohibition and..... tax laws and it was her role in that which gave her the idea to get to the mobsters. Until Mabel arrived the various gangsters were the untouchables, as nobody would dare testify against them. They never kept records and never paid any tax, even though they were demonstrably wealthy people. Mabel didn't need a Thompson machine gun, she had something far more dangerous, the taxman. When she first delivered her plan to the inner circle, they almost laughed at her, until it finally dawned upon them the sheer genius of it. What they needed now was testbed case, so they went after a bootlegger in South Carolina named Manly Sullivan. Now here's where it gets funny, as his lawyers argued that he couldn't file tax returns because they would incriminate him and thus be a breach of his fifth amendment. They also made  the case that if the government took tax off Manly, they would become an accessory to the crime! Mabel's fiercest opponent was a Judge named Martin Manton who argued vehemently that it was unacceptable for a government to profit from crime. The case finally ended up at the Supreme court and Mabel won and in a beautiful example of irony, her opponent at the trial, Judge Manton was later taken to court himself for tax evasion on his bribe money and given 18 months in jail. The Sullivan case went almost unnoticed by the crime gangs and that would be their downfall. Thanks to Mabel, Capone's empire would be destroyed by an ex housewife who got bored.

tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #184
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 01:03:52Copy HTML

Rounding off the act of prohibition I couldn't finish without a mention of its most infamous creation, ie Al Capone. There is more myth and legend surrounds this man than in a Tolkien book. All dictators know that you must have the ordinary man on the street's consent and appreciation to succeed and Capone did that with simple gestures like soup kitchens and such like. He organised a successful self promotional industry amongst the man in the street and just blackmailed, bribed  and threatened the upper echelons. But, what I want to mention is the unknown person who was really responsible for his downfall and it wasn't Elliot Ness and his untouchables, or an undaunted incorruptible Chief of Police, or a crusading politician but the wonderfully titled Mabel Walker Willebrandt, who ten years before she nailed him was a housewife in California. This remarkable girl happened to get bored sweeping floors and making beds, so she enrolled in night classes at the University of California and emerged in 1916 with a degree in law. What does our heroin do now, fight town hall corruption? Represent the rich and famous? Take up the lucrative world of litigation or the machination of Hollywood? Narrrrr, she represented battered wives and prostitutes, ditching her husband by divorce along the way and after five years she had made such a name for herself as a crusader, she was invited to Washington to become Assistant Attorney General. Her job now was to enforce prohibition and..... tax laws and it was her role in that which gave her the idea to get to the mobsters. Until Mabel arrived the various gangsters were the untouchables, as nobody would dare testify against them. They never kept records and never paid any tax, even though they were demonstrably wealthy people. Mabel didn't need a Thompson machine gun, she had something far more dangerous, the taxman. When she first delivered her plan to the inner circle, they almost laughed at her, until it finally dawned upon them the sheer genius of it. What they needed now was testbed case, so they went after a bootlegger in South Carolina named Manly Sullivan. Now here's where it gets funny, as his lawyers argued that he couldn't file tax returns because they would incriminate him and thus be a breach of his fifth amendment. They also made  the case that if the government took tax off Manly, they would become an accessory to the crime! Mabel's fiercest opponent was a Judge named Martin Manton who argued vehemently that it was unacceptable for a government to profit from crime. The case finally ended up at the Supreme court and Mabel won and in a beautiful example of irony, her opponent at the trial, Judge Manton was later taken to court himself for tax evasion on his bribe money and given 18 months in jail. The Sullivan case went almost unnoticed by the crime gangs and that would be their downfall. Thanks to Mabel, Capone's empire would be destroyed by an ex housewife who got bored.


Good stuff Major, never heard of Mabel until your post. In the movie Untouchables they gave major credit to the little wimpy accountant guy for pressing the tax evasion case that eventually brought big Al down. No mention of poor Mabel.

tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #185
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 01:09:20Copy HTML

22 January 1879 - The Battles of Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift.

Two of the most famous battles of GB's colonial wars. British troops invaded Zululand in January 1879 in three columns. One reached Isandhlwana where a portion of it marched off in search of the Zulu army leaving around 1800 British and native levies in camp. The camp was attacked on 22 January by up to 20,000 Zulus who overran the camp in a few hours. Almost all the European troops were killed, 1277 to be precise. most of the 500 survivors were native levies who fled as soon as the Zulus were sighted. The Zulus lost about 1500 killed and wounded.

Later that day around 3500 Zulus attacked the mission station and hospital at Rorke's Drift which contained 139 men. In a battle that lasted until the early hours the Zulus were driven off leaving 16 British dead. 351 dead Zulus were found in the vicinity and more would have died of their wounds. 

The films Zulu and Zulu Dawn tell the story of the battles in which 14 Victoria Crosses were awarded, 11 for the defence of Rorke's Drift and three for Isandhlwana, two posthumously. 


One of those movies had a scene that was typically British. The Sargent Major properly dispensing ammo to the men all while under attack by an endless line of savages. He was very strict & never lost composure, can't imagine it really was like that, with all the carnage & chaos happening around him. But it showed the stiff upper lip thingy the Brits are famous for.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 02:11:52Copy HTML

I think you may be referring to Colour Sergeant Bourne from the first film, Zulu, which depicts the defence of Rorke's Drift. If that's so, he was in real life a great soldier.  He had a remarkable army career, enlisting as a Private and retiring as a Lieutenant Colonel. He was the last of the defenders of Rorke's to die, going on VE day no less in 1945.

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #187
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:22/01/2020 02:18:11Copy HTML

One of the reasons for the defeat at Isandhlwana is that the QM didn't have enough screwdrivers to unfasten the ammunition boxes, the Zulu attack was unexpected so the ammo boxes hadn't been opened. In the end the men smashed the boxes open with their boots, there are such boxes in the Regimental Museum in Brecon with the lids kicked in. 

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:23/01/2020 04:35:29Copy HTML

The ammo in those days wasn’t the best and was mainly kept boxed while travelling or until it had to be used. It wasn’t just trouble opening the boxes which had a special tool but getting it distributed to the forward line which was out to far in front. At the drift it was a different thing and anyone that survived that onslaught should have been given the VC.

If you seen the movie, We Were Solders Then Tommy you will notice it’s the top sqt’s job to make sure the ammo is handed out. Same for the food and water. He’s like the mother hen in the group and directly looks after the men.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:23/01/2020 09:07:38Copy HTML

23 January 1820 - Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn died. 200 years ago today.

Fourth son of King George III and father of Queen Victoria. As a younger son he had no expectations of inheriting the Throne, so he spent much of his life in the Army and as Governor of Gibraltar. He felt no need to marry and consequently lived with his mistress Madame de Saint-Laurent.

However everything changed in 1817 when the only child of George, Prince of Wales died leaving no grandchildren of the King as future heirs. Parliament offered to pay off the debts of the unmarried Princes if they married and produced heirs. So in 1818 at the age of 50 the Duke of Kent married Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In May 1819 she gave birth to a daughter (Alexandrina) Victoria. At Christmas 1819 the family moved to a villa at Sidmouth on the Devonshire coast. Within weeks he fell seriously ill with pneumonia and died on 23 January aged 52 leaving a widow and eight month old Victoria.

The family sadness didn't end there though, in Windsor Castle the Duke's father 81 year old King George lay dying.

  

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PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #190
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 08:09:19Copy HTML

Ref #151 and #175.

On the first one can you agree about still being able to consume alcohol during prohibition.

On the second, most people don’t think about old age Tommy until they are there. 

We start stroking off things on our buck list way to late in life to enjoy them to their fullest.

My father gave my wife and I one piece of advise on enjoying life to it’s fullest.

He said it you want to go climb a mountain go climb it now,If you want to see the world then go do it now. 

He finally got down the list of do it nows to laying on some sandy Beach in Florida and he says. do it now because it you wait until you are older, then the only thing you will be able to do is get your wheelchair wheels stuck in the sand.

My wife and I still joke about getting our wheelchairs wheels stuck on some sandy beach. 

Soon it won’t be a joke anymore.




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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 08:43:46Copy HTML

24 January 1965 - Sir Winston Churchill died.

For most he was the famed wartime leader, but he first held a senior Cabinet post before the First World War. He was also a Member of Parliament almost continuously for 64 years 1900-64, apart from two years 1922-24. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #192
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 11:12:20Copy HTML

23 January 1820 - Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn died. 200 years ago today.

Fourth son of King George III and father of Queen Victoria. As a younger son he had no expectations of inheriting the Throne, so he spent much of his life in the Army and as Governor of Gibraltar. He felt no need to marry and consequently lived with his mistress Madame de Saint-Laurent.

However everything changed in 1817 when the only child of George, Prince of Wales died leaving no grandchildren of the King as future heirs. Parliament offered to pay off the debts of the unmarried Princes if they married and produced heirs. So in 1818 at the age of 50 the Duke of Kent married Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In May 1819 she gave birth to a daughter (Alexandrina) Victoria. At Christmas 1819 the family moved to a villa at Sidmouth on the Devonshire coast. Within weeks he fell seriously ill with pneumonia and died on 23 January aged 52 leaving a widow and eight month old Victoria.

The family sadness didn't end there though, in Windsor Castle the Duke's father 81 year old King George lay dying.

  


Alexandrina Victoria, would she been the future Queen Victoria?

tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #193
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 11:22:46Copy HTML

24 January 1965 - Sir Winston Churchill died.

For most he was the famed wartime leader, but he first held a senior Cabinet post before the First World War. He was also a Member of Parliament almost continuously for 64 years 1900-64, apart from two years 1922-24. 


Winston Churchill was deemed "Man of the Century" & I must totally agree. Quite a career & life, saved the world from despots. Will there ever be another?

majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #194
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 12:21:52Copy HTML

Churchill is endlessly fascinating. Just when you think you've heard it all, you discover something else about him, then more and more. He never ends and never stops entertaining you, good or bad.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 01:41:20Copy HTML

Going back to Queen Victoria briefly. Yes, her full name was Alexandrina Victoria, she was known as Drina as a child. 

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tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #196
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 07:02:52Copy HTML

Going back to Queen Victoria briefly. Yes, her full name was Alexandrina Victoria, she was known as Drina as a child. 


Sounds Russian not German.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:24/01/2020 08:10:09Copy HTML

You're closer than you realize. Victoria's uncle, the Prince Regent George insisted his niece be christened with the name Alexandrina in honour of Tsar Alexander I of Russia of whom he was a great admirer as the man who. along with GB, had done more than any to defeat Napoleon.  
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MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #198
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:25/01/2020 08:49:32Copy HTML

25 January 1533 - Henry VIII married Anne Boleyn.

By the late 1520s after nearly 20 years of marriage it was obvious that Henry's wife Katherine of Aragon was not going to produce a male heir. The King's fancies had turned to one of his wife's ladies-in-waiting Anne Boleyn so he instructed his chief advisor Thomas Wolsey to secure from the Pope a divorce. However the Pope refused to grant Henry his wish so his more adventurous advisors came up with another plan - create your own Church with your self as Head and grant yourself a divorce.

While this was still in the planning stage Anne told the King that she was pregnant, so Henry immediately married her and trusted to his newly created Church of England to declare at a later date that his first marriage had been unlawful. His sumise proved correct when in May a Church Convention declared his marriage to Katherine null and void. 

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:26/01/2020 04:11:58Copy HTML

Was watching a program today about America through the 20th century and the progress they made from assembly lines to unions and social security. It showed that when the depression hit and everyone was out of work including the coal miners the workers and their families went to the closed down mines and kept on mining on a much smaller scale. They moved the coal out on 5 ton trucks in the middle of the night and sold it to the near by towns. They could make $2.00 a day by mining and bootlegging the coal. They in turn could keep the small towns going by buying their groceries and necessities at the local stores.  It didn’t mention if this was being done in Penn or West Virginia though like I had hoped to hear them say.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:26/01/2020 11:03:58Copy HTML

26 January 1788 - The first British colony in Australia established. Australia Day.

With the loss of the American colonies GB sought an alternative location for the transportation of convicts. They decided upon Australia which had been claimed by James Cook nearly 20 years earlier, but had remained unsettled and furthermore was in danger of being claimed by France which had sent out an expedition to that part of the world.

After a voyage from England of over eight months the so-called First Fleet arrived at Botany Bay, Australia on 18 January 1788. The fleet was made up of 11 ships carrying a total of around 1480 people of which just over half were convicts and their children, the others were ships' crew, administrators, guards etc plus wives and children.

Botany Bay had been their intended destination based on James Cook's reports from 1770, but on arrival it was found to be unsuitable to build a penal colony. A number of small boats were sent along the coast to search for a more suitable site. They returned with news of a likely spot a few miles to the north at Port Jackson an inlet named by Cook but not visited by him.

The fleet set off and dropped anchor there on 26 January. The commander of the fleet Arthur Phillip renamed it Sydney Cove after the Home Secretary Lord Sydney.

The colony grew into the city of Sydney and the whole of Australia eventually became a British colony. 

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:26/01/2020 12:08:34Copy HTML

26 January 1788 - The first British colony in Australia established. Australia Day.

With the loss of the American colonies GB sought an alternative location for the transportation of convicts. They decided upon Australia which had been claimed by James Cook nearly 20 years earlier, but had remained unsettled and furthermore was in danger of being claimed by France which had sent out an expedition to that part of the world.

After a voyage from England of over eight months the so-called First Fleet arrived at Botany Bay, Australia on 18 January 1788. The fleet was made up of 11 ships carrying a total of around 1480 people of which just over half were convicts and their children, the others were ships' crew, administrators, guards etc plus wives and children.

Botany Bay had been their intended destination based on James Cook's reports from 1770, but on arrival it was found to be unsuitable to build a penal colony. A number of small boats were sent along the coast to search for a more suitable site. They returned with news of a likely spot a few miles to the north at Port Jackson an inlet named by Cook but not visited by him.

The fleet set off and dropped anchor there on 26 January. The commander of the fleet Arthur Phillip renamed it Sydney Cove after the Home Secretary Lord Sydney.

The colony grew into the city of Sydney and the whole of Australia eventually became a British colony. 


OMG, so the English used America as a dumping ground for convicts? What an arrogant statement Mark.



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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:26/01/2020 04:25:06Copy HTML

Possibly the greatest hockey player of all time born today in 1961, the great Wayne Gretzky. Possibly the US's greatest general of WW2 born in 1880 Douglas McArthur. McArthur was a great strategical general, as well as a tactical one.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:26/01/2020 08:54:52Copy HTML

Possibly the greatest hockey player of all time born today in 1961, the great Wayne Gretzky. Possibly the US's greatest general of WW2 born in 1880 Douglas McArthur. McArthur was a great strategical general, as well as a tactical one.


I would put Gretzky at #1 for sure. Major, I feel the same about McArthur but as you know he fell into bad tidings with "that temporary resident of the White House" Harry Truman. Old Doug got fired for his insubordination & not kow towing to Truman, actually kept him waiting for meetings.

Now my question to you & any others; Was McArthur correct during the Korean War when he wanted to use strategic nukes on the Chinks? Would we have been better off in the long run?

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 06:06:58Copy HTML

26 January 1788 - The first British colony in Australia established. Australia Day.

With the loss of the American colonies GB sought an alternative location for the transportation of convicts. They decided upon Australia which had been claimed by James Cook nearly 20 years earlier, but had remained unsettled and furthermore was in danger of being claimed by France which had sent out an expedition to that part of the world.

After a voyage from England of over eight months the so-called First Fleet arrived at Botany Bay, Australia on 18 January 1788. The fleet was made up of 11 ships carrying a total of around 1480 people of which just over half were convicts and their children, the others were ships' crew, administrators, guards etc plus wives and children.

Botany Bay had been their intended destination based on James Cook's reports from 1770, but on arrival it was found to be unsuitable to build a penal colony. A number of small boats were sent along the coast to search for a more suitable site. They returned with news of a likely spot a few miles to the north at Port Jackson an inlet named by Cook but not visited by him.

The fleet set off and dropped anchor there on 26 January. The commander of the fleet Arthur Phillip renamed it Sydney Cove after the Home Secretary Lord Sydney

The colony grew into the city of Sydney and the whole of Australia eventually became a British colony. 


OMG, so the English used America as a dumping ground for convicts? What an arrogant statement Mark.





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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 06:15:42Copy HTML

What an arrogant statement Mark. And your still a country of criminals.

With the nuke thing it must be remember that we weren’t just fighting with the North Koreans and the Chinese but Russia was also involved and a supplier of arms.

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 08:47:30Copy HTML

27 January 1859 - Wilhelm II, German Emperor and King of Prussia 1888-1918, born.

His birth was a difficult one in which his left arm was dislocated and not reset for several days, as a result it remained withered for the rest of his life. 

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 11:17:42Copy HTML

The Vietnam war ended today in 73. This war marked the beginning the America's strategy of not wanting to win wars anymore

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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 12:08:36Copy HTML

27 January 1859 - Wilhelm II, German Emperor and King of Prussia 1888-1918, born.

His birth was a difficult one in which his left arm was dislocated and not reset for several days, as a result it remained withered for the rest of his life. 


1910 Thomas Crapper died. Inventor of many "sanitary appliances" on which his name was emblazoned. Pipe fixtures, manhole covers, & toilets. The Major should be an expert in this area. Doughboys stationed in Europe during WWI saw the label "crapper" on toilets in GB & associated that with "taking a crap." It stuck.............so to speak.


The toilet was invented in 1596 by some bloke named Herrington or Harrington, or something like that.


majorshrapnel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #209
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 01:42:18Copy HTML

When I kicked off my illustrious career back in 67, I was serving my time with the Manchester Corporation, which owned tens of thousands of houses and buildings of many kinds, including stately type houses. I started off on the maintenance division and we maintained schools. I remember that most of the school toilets had wooden cisterns, lead lined and all high level of course, including every home too. If they leaked we soldered them. Virtually all of the piping was lead and I handled lead all day long, something that would horrify the health and safety gestapo now. I especially enjoyed handling lead to the scrapyards for a weigh in (cash in) and then off to get pissed. Proper apprenticeship that. I've mentioned before about destroying many historic, beautiful ceramic toilets and cisterns, some now worth a small fortune I should think. Nobody wanted anything like that back then, as it was the brave new world of plastic. I remember removing lead lined wooden gutters from a stately type place, including the most ornate, lead downspouts and spitter heads you could imagine, which were a stunning example of the old plumbers art and very historic now. Had a few pissups after destroying that particular piece of history. Y'know, if you own one of these old grade one buildings now, you have to have permission to do anything on your own property and if you needed new lead gutters and downspouts they would cost a mint, as they have to be replaced like for like and there's not many people around who can do that kind of stuff.

tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #210
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Re:ON THIS DATE

Date Posted:27/01/2020 03:44:03Copy HTML

When I kicked off my illustrious career back in 67, I was serving my time with the Manchester Corporation, which owned tens of thousands of houses and buildings of many kinds, including stately type houses. I started off on the maintenance division and we maintained schools. I remember that most of the school toilets had wooden cisterns, lead lined and all high level of course, including every home too. If they leaked we soldered them. Virtually all of the piping was lead and I handled lead all day long, something that would horrify the health and safety gestapo now. I especially enjoyed handling lead to the scrapyards for a weigh in (cash in) and then off to get pissed. Proper apprenticeship that. I've mentioned before about destroying many historic, beautiful ceramic toilets and cisterns, some now worth a small fortune I should think. Nobody wanted anything like that back then, as it was the brave new world of plastic. I remember removing lead lined wooden gutters from a stately type place, including the most ornate, lead downspouts and spitter heads you could imagine, which were a stunning example of the old plumbers art and very historic now. Had a few pissups after destroying that particular piece of history. Y'know, if you own one of these old grade one buildings now, you have to have permission to do anything on your own property and if you needed new lead gutters and downspouts they would cost a mint, as they have to be replaced like for like and there's not many people around who can do that kind of stuff.


In the little town I now live near about 70 miles south of Buffalo, we have many historic buildings (history for us is 100 years old). A local developer recently bought one & is renovating it. I had a chat with him at the bar at the local American Legion. He said it was a "nightmare" dealing with the state & county regulations. One tells him one thing, another tells him something else. You know, "change orders." He has run into many overruns on the cost. The exterior has to fit in with what it once looked like. Some interior fixtures as well.

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