A trade deal and a wall, one has got to give, and we know which.

In the socialist world Mark, not in Trump's.

You're right Mark, there will be no wall. Do you know what, I think Trump will go down in history as the first politician to sell a pork pie to the public.

One of the sticking points is Canadian doesn't agree with the anti dumping laws that Trump wants to remove. Also if there is a disagreement over something then there is no recourse in place to act as mediator. Trade deals by the way are handled by and must be approved by congress, not Presidents. A trade deal also can't be cancelled without congress. What you seemed to miss Tommy if they put a 25% tariff on Canadian built cars which are built much better by the way, then it's the American consumer that pays the extra 25%, not Canada. Also a lot of the parts for American cars are made in Canada. They will also cost more to Americans. To imposing tariffs are like taking a knife to a fight and then slitting your own throat with it. Most people would call that self abuse. Another sticking point is dairy products. Right now the States is a wash in them and want to dump them on us. It would ruin our own industry and dairy products and were never part of the original NAFTA deal in the first place. Trump puts trade tariffs on everyone but doesn't think that they should return the favour. He is trying to rush it through before the fall elections knowing it wouldn't be passed by the congress that will probably contain more Dem's. Trump keeps trying to tell the people that NAFTA was no good for the country when the top economists in the States says it was. Who are you to believe. Mexico also makes cars and parts for American cars but they can make them cheaper because their wages paid to workers are less. With the tariffs put on Soy it has dropped the price at market by 25%. That's means if American farmers can manage to even find a buyer they have to sell it them for 25% less than last year. Same with pork produces. Harley Davidson is moving a lot of it's production out of the States because of Trump's tariffs which they figure will cost their company 100's of thousands. It will mean lost American jobs. Same with the German car companies if they all move out of the States. Car companies are multinationals and employ hundreds of thosands of people in every country they make cars in. Tariffs have been proven through history not to be a good thing for the States and has cost them dearly for implementing them. Now we have a clueless proven crook running the country who doesn't have a hint of what he doing and doesn't care about anything other than himself and supporting his 40% base.

You're right Mark, there will be no wall. Do you know what, I think Trump will go down in history as the first politician to sell a pork pie to the public. In all fairness to Trump they are fixing the old one in places where it needs fixing but no new wall has been started. They did show him standing by different test walls that were erected for the press though and nothing has been done to them since. Now Canada of all things wants a wall built and says the States will pay for it. At the America border crossing they are now asking Canadians have they ever smoked Mary Jane before no matter what their age is. If they said yes I tried it once then they will automatically be denied entry to the States even if grass is legal in the State they are trying to enter. Now if we did the same to Americans crossing over you would be hard pressed to ever see an American plate on the roads here ever again.

Here's a basic economic principle for you. Alberta was the economic driving force for Canada with its oil. Oil is everything in this world. They were crazy enough to vote in a socialist governemnt and their economy has been in freefall ever since. They can't run a pipeline west, as the socialist government next door won't let them. They can't run a pipeline east, as the socialist government to the west won't let them. They are forced to ship oil all the way to Texas for refining, as they don't have facilities to do it themselves and if that's not one giant polluting exercise, what is? Their is only one thing that unites your socialist Canadians and that's their hatred of the USA, or is that jealousy?

In retaliation for BC winning the court battle though the courts the federal Government had now purchased the pipe line for Canada. Alberta was so up set over the court decision that they have threated to pull out of the clean air act that all provinces share. Trudeau has to get his act together because the country does need a sea port to be able to export oil through and not just give the States it at below market value. Soon the natural resource of Fresh drinking water in this country will replace oil, but not just yet. If you go to a store here and purchase a 1/2 litre bottle of water it costs a dollar and if you only purchase two it's two dollars. So already it costs more to buy a litre of water than it does a litre of gasoline.

Here's more basic economic principle for you. Under the socialists, the province of Ontario now owes more money than the whole of Canada has since its inception. Alberta votes in the socialists, who appoint a rabid environmentalist to run its oil industry, who promptly puts tens of thousands out of work. The golden egg of Canada ruined.

Here's more basic economic principle for you. Under the socialists, the province of Ontario now owes more money than the whole of Canada has since its inception. Alberta votes in the socialists, who appoint a rabid environmentalist to run its oil industry, who promptly puts tens of thousands out of work. The golden egg of Canada ruined.

I figured you were out of th loop on Canadian politics but not this far out. The world price of oil dropping is what hurt Alberta. It has happened two times before this last time that I can remember. The oil companies in Alberta and Saskatchewan do a lot of sub contracting to other smaller groups and it's these sub contracting companies that all lose their jobs when the price of oil goes south. The Liberals were in the drivers seat in Ontario and it was them that went on a spending spree, some of it good spending and a lot not. When you say socialist in Ontario we think of the NDP party which is much further left than both the Conservatives and the Liberals. All 10 Provinces no matter who is running their provincal government agree on climate change and have all put stricter meassures on all their industries right across Canada. Clean air and water should be a right of all people around the world but the States thinks differently since Trump took office. They continue to be one of the biggest polluters in the world and now since returning to burning cheap coal to save 2 thousand jobs have condemed the rest of their 330 million people to living shorter lifes. What Alberta and Saskatchewan both need to start that chicken laying golden eggs again is a sea port to sell their oil through and that is in the works.

Trump lies. That makes negotiating NAFTA impossible: Neil Macdonald

It 's almost sad watching good journalists trying to report on this sewage backup of a negotiation in Washington.

Because we are trained to think inside the box, to respect (even genuflect to) authority and processes, most mainstream media reporting has treated the NAFTA talks as a serious endeavour in a rules-based world: a give-and-take among three countries searching for a deal that satisfies the national interest of each.

We actually need that to be the case. In such a world, we can develop sources, tease out bits of information for our audiences, relate opinions from sober experts deeply versed in the minutiae of international trade law, and civilly discuss the progress of the negotiations, the outcome of which, after all, is vital to our economy.

So deep, in fact, is Western journalism 's reverence for institutions that we find it almost impossible to call a national leader a liar, even when the lies are repeated, manifest and proven. Yes, of course presidents and prime ministers occasionally misdirect, or misconstrue reality, or even ignore clear facts or evidence, but promiscuous, ignorant, constant lying? No. Our systems, our democracies, are better than that.

Put that together with our need to feed the news cycle, our need to believe in the watchdog role we treasure, and the vicious, feral intellect currently occupying the Oval Office, and you have the unmoored spectacle now going on in Washington. 

No intention of compromise

Take, for example, the reporting of President Donald Trump  's supposedly off-the-record remarks to Bloomberg News journalists at the White House, which were promptly leaked to the Toronto Star last week.

Any NAFTA deal, Trump told Bloomberg, must be "totally on our terms." His administration has no intention of the slightest compromise, he said, and he meets all Canadian disagreements by bluntly threatening further crippling tariffs on automobiles and parts made in Canada. Having divided Mexico and Canada to conquer them, he intends to bludgeon both nations with an American-made baseball bat until they cower under the sheer force of American power.

This was instantly taken as significant, a glimpse of Trump 's real agenda, a sign of what Canada's earnest, progressive leadership is up against. Reaction was sought from the Canadian negotiating team, which took it stoically. Ink was wasted on Trump's public fuming about being betrayed by "dishonest" Bloomberg reporters.

Just about the only one who refused to be taken in was Daniel Dale, the Star correspondent in Washington who broke the story.

Dale, of course, has the advantage of knowing who leaked the quotes to him (quite possibly Trump 's own officials). He's also unafraid of calling Trump a liar, and  has in fact made a name for himself chronicling the president 's contempt for truth.

In his scoop, Dale noted an important caveat:

" Trump, of course, is known for both dishonesty and for bragging about his own greatness, and he regularly utters dubious boasts about how he is supposedly dominating the feeble people on the other side of the bargaining table. When he claimed to have made no compromises, it is possible he was making a false claim to impress the Bloomberg journalists."

Remember, this was a straight-up news story, not an opinion or op-ed piece. Dale is a scholar of Trump 's mendacity. He knows that even when Trump lies, he might be lying.

Bravo. Bravissimo. Remember, this is the same president who has boasted about inventing a U.S. trade deficit with Canada, just to confuse poor silly hapless Justin Trudeau on the phone.

Just about nothing Trump says about the NAFTA talks is true or real, and that singular reality should routinely precede all reporting on the matter. As former Canadian trade negotiator Gordon Ritchie puts it: "It's all bulls**t. It's all complete, utter bulls**t."

When he threatens to cancel the trade treaty, it 's nonsense. He has to convince Congress to do that, and it's not even likely he can. When he complains about huge, awful, unfair Canadian tariffs, it's exactly what Ritchie said – the original free trade agreement eliminated all tariffs between the two countries, with the exception of dairy, eggs and poultry, which account for a fraction of one per cent of U.S. imports. (Trump's punitive tariffs against Canadian steel and aluminum, of course, are illegal and wouldn't withstand a NAFTA or World Trade Organization challenge, not that Trump would give a toss).

When he gripes about Canada 's protection of its dairy industry, he conveniently ignores America's own protectionist agricultural subsidies.

When he threatens to impose further massive tariffs on Canadian automotive products, he 's actually talking about eliminating tens of thousands of American jobs in the interconnected auto industry. As Ritchie puts it, "first out of the bankruptcy gate would be General Motors."

That said, there are no happy truths to cling to, either. There would be no guaranteed reversion to the original free trade agreement, as some have assured us, if Trump actually does convince his poodles in Congress to abolish NAFTA.

And even if the "dispute settlement mechanism" survives Trump's attempts to kill it, the U.S. government has ignored its verdicts in the past anyway. To Trump and his  fans, treaties are just things that hurt America 's greatness.

Reality is fog. All we really know is that our once greatest ally and close partner has elected as its leader a cheapjack liar who deserves no respect or credence whatever, least of all from serious journalists. Any administration statement should be reported with the liar asterisk.

It 's so weird in Washington that we don't even know if his trade officials and negotiators actually speak for him. Again, remember: this is a president under investigation, who is currently trying to convince Americans that his own attorney general is running a rogue justice department.

Normally, trade negotiations are a poker game in which nothing is real until it 's signed. Under Trump's leadership, any eventual deal might be no more real than the education all those poor suckers paid for at Trump University.

The best course for Canada is to ignore his childish posing, remember all his lies, and vigorously pursue other trading partners. An oil pipeline to Pacific tidewater would help a great deal, but that 's another matter, isn't it?

At least you got the dog part right and the dog is out of bones and that's why you need our bones to keep the dog from starving.

Not to worry though because when the Big Blue Wave sweeps through, times will get better for you. 

Trump says Canada has treated U.S. farmers ‘very poorly,’ but most of them tell a different story

As Canadian and American trade negotiators resumed their high-pressure talks in Washington Wednesday, one of Donald Trump’s favourite themes loomed large.

For 17 months, the president has accused this country of giving U.S. farmers a raw deal, imposing 300-per-cent tariffs on their dairy products and committing other, unspecified injustices that would have to be remedied in a revamped NAFTA deal.

“Canada has treated our Agricultural business and Farmers very poorly for a very long period of time,” he charged on Twitter in June. “Highly restrictive on Trade!”

Canada will be left out of a new agreement the U.S. has struck with Mexico if a fair deal cannot be reached “after decades of abuse,” Trump said last weekend.

Farmers and agricultural economists are worried that president Donald Trumpís trade, immigration and biofuels policies will cost farms billions of dollars in lost income and force some out of business.

But the agriculture issue’s outsized profile in the negotiations belies a surprising fact: for most of the States’ farm sector, the North American Free Trade Agreement — and trade with Canada specifically — has been a resounding success.

With tariffs reduced to zero on the vast majority of agricultural products, U.S. farm exports to Canada have soared from about $2 billion a year to over $20 billion since the nations first signed a free-trade pact, American government data show. Even U.S. exports of dairy products to Canada — a legitimate sore point — have ballooned over ten-fold in that time.

In March the Trump administration itself admitted that “the main reason for strong increases in (farm) trade with Canada” was the countries’ 1987 free-trade agreement, and the NAFTA accord that replaced it.

“These trade agreements eliminated nearly all tariffs on U.S. exports to Canada, significantly improving export opportunities for U.S. producers,” said the American Department of Agriculture report.

Canada was the biggest export market for U.S. agriculture in 2017.

“For farmers, it’s just seen as a place where there has been a lot of good back-and-forth trade,” Dave Salmonson of the American Farm Bureau Federation said about NAFTA. “They want it to keep going.”

US President Donald Trump displays caps reading “Make our Farmers Great Again” while walking to board Marine One as he departs the White House in Washington, DC, on August 30, 2018 for Indiana.

Nick Giordano, a vice president at the National Pork Producers Association, said Wednesday he applauds generally the Trump White House’s push to improve trading conditions for America.

But he said NAFTA has been “extraordinarily important” to his members, and the original Canada-U.S. free-trade accord the first of many that helped make the U.S. a top exporter of pork after being a net importer.

“By and large, the vast majority of farmers in the U.S. want more trade deals,” he said.

Meanwhile, American food producers have repeatedly benefited from using the “Chapter 19” dispute-resolution tool in NAFTA, a mechanism their government wants killed and that is another major sticking point in the talks.

Canada’s protection of dairy and poultry producers with supply-management systems are clearly a point of contention for some U.S. farmers and food processors, as well as U.S. negotiators.

Canadian milk and milk products are seen in a grocery store on September 4, 2018 in Caledon, Canada.

Though Americans export almost $500 million worth of milk products to Canada yearly free of tariffs — three times what they import from here — farm groups and politicians have decried a Canadian system that prevents more dairy exports by imposing duties as high as 298 per cent on anything above the quota granted the U.S.

Sources have said Canadian negotiators have offered more access to the dairy market, though the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) office told some media last week there had been no such concessions.

Regardless, Trump has tried to broaden the issue, singling out agriculture generally as his one, recurring grievance with his northern neighbour.

“Canada does not treat us right in terms of the farming and the crossing the borders,” the president said in February.

“Canada has all sorts of trade barriers on our Agricultural products. Not acceptable!” he Tweeted in June.

Yet since NAFTA was implemented in 1994, agricultural exports to Canada have ballooned more than 400 per cent to $24 billion, giving the U.S. a $2-billion farm-trade surplus last year, according to statistics from the USTR.

American agriculture exports have increased to other countries, too, but the Canadian and Mexican markets have expanded in relative terms, from 19 to 28 per cent of the total, says the Chicago-based CME Group of futures markets.

NAFTA has been “extraordinarily important” to members of the National Pork Producers Association, a spokesperson says.

And much like the highly intertwined automobile industry, agricultural goods “move across the border, are processed, packaged and exported back,” said the U.S. Department of Agriculture report. It called the deeply integrated supply chains “a testament to NAFTA’s importance for both countries.”

So how then did Canada’s alleged mistreatment of U.S. farmers come to define the current trade talks?

Though the president has called NAFTA one of the worst deals “in history,” he had little but praise for Canada when he first came to power, suggesting he was more concerned by the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico.

The turning point may have been an April, 2017 speech in Wisconsin, when he first raised the spectre of Canada’s milk tariffs. He has often since appeared fixated on the issue. 

For many American farm groups, the president’s threat now to end a 30-year free-trade partnership with Canada – citing the cause of U.S. agriculture in doing so – is itself a major worry.

The National Corn Growers Association were among those who urged the White House last week to quickly strike a deal with Canada.

“NAFTA,” it said, “has been an unequivocal success story for American agriculture.”