History Lovers
historylovers Aimoo Forum List | Ticket | Today | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
historylovers > General > General Discussion Go to subcategory:
Author Content
MarkUK
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Date Posted:09/04/2021 06:43:54Copy HTML

A few weeks ago on this site (I can't find it now) the topic of William Alexander and Nova Scotia was discussed. The history of the title of baronet is an interesting one.

A baronet is above a knight but below a baron. A knighthood is for the recipient only, it dies with him. A baronetcy is an hereditary knighthood and is passed down to the holder's heir; so for example Sir Winston Churchill was a knight, the title of "Sir" died with him. Had he been created a baronet he would have been a "Sir" but on his death the title would have passed to his son who would have become Sir Randolph Churchill, but did not, it died with Sir Winston in 1965.

Also a baronet is the highest rank before you reach the nobility, above a baronet is a baron, the first and lowest rank of nobility.

The title of baronet was created in 1611 by King James I purely to raise money. The title could be purchased for £1095 (a huge sum then) and the money used to pay for the English colonization of Ireland, £1095 was the sum calculated to supply 30 men for three years in Ireland. There are baronets alive today who can trace their lineage back to the first creations in 1611. 

In 1625 King Charles I took it further. In 1621 Sir William Alexander had been been granted a royal charter to colonize an area of north America known as Nova Scotia (New Scotland). In order to attract settlers people could become baronets of Nova Scotia for the sum of 3000 marks (£166 13s 4d). Initially restricted to Scots the "offer" was extended to English and Irish in 1633 after not enough Scots had come forward. These new baronets were not expected to actually settle in Nova Scotia themselves if they did not wish to but their 3000 marks gave them a grant of land which they would be expected to maintain. There remains today baronets of Nova Scotia whose titles dates back to 1625.    

King Charles' scheme was not the money raising success he'd hoped for. Just over 120 baronets of Nova Scotia were created raising about £20,500 and within a few years the colony was overrun by the French. Even so King Charles was still granting baronetcies to buyers years after the colony had been extinguished. In 1638 the land grants were ended (they had become meaningless once the French had occupied the area) but the title baronet of Nova Scotia could still be purchased for another 70 years. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:5172
  • Posts:5172
  • From:USA
  • Register:08/12/2008 11:28:28

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:09/04/2021 07:47:20Copy HTML

 Mark, so a title could be purchased? Are there any other titles that can be purchased as well.

Live respected, die regretted
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:09/04/2021 08:40:36Copy HTML

 Mark, so a title could be purchased? Are there any other titles that can be purchased as well.


I know a couple that's Americans can purchase. Becoming a British subject or a Canadian citizen. It use to cost 10 bucks in Canada and people use to joke with new Canadians from Britain that they had purchased their feathers. My father born in Scotland and arrived in Canada at the age of 5. He went through the Canadian school system and served in the Canadian Army from 1939 to 1945. He knew nothing else other than being a Canadian but when it came to old age pension time he found out he wasn't classified as a Canadian but still British. Same for my mother. They both had to pay 10 bucks to become Canadians on paper before they could collect their pensions.

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:09/04/2021 08:43:19Copy HTML

Officially no, only a baronetcy. But even in recent times there are accusations of the rich purchasing a title with a "donation" to party funds etc. The formal practice of purchasing a baronetcy was abolished long ago. The last one created was in 1990. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:09/04/2021 10:23:57Copy HTML

Officially no, only a baronetcy. But even in recent times there are accusations of the rich purchasing a title with a "donation" to party funds etc. The formal practice of purchasing a baronetcy was abolished long ago. The last one created was in 1990. 


I not selling a baronetcy to Tommy only the title and priviledge of being called British or Canadian.

Much higher an honour that only being a Baronet.

shula Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:1808
  • Posts:1808
  • From:USA
  • Register:24/11/2008 12:06:54

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 03:46:37Copy HTML

What is a big advantage to being created a baronet?  Business dealings, perhaps?  Baronets don't collect taxes or anything, do they?
"It is forbidden to spit on cats in plague-time." -Albert Camus-
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 07:45:56Copy HTML

No, it's just a title, but you are a "Sir" your wife is Lady and the title is passed on to your heir. 

Years ago it used to be thought of as the first step towards the nobility, you'd be created a baronet, the next rung is a baron and so on up the ladder. For some that was the case, for other families they got no further than a baronet. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:5172
  • Posts:5172
  • From:USA
  • Register:08/12/2008 11:28:28

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 10:57:17Copy HTML

No, it's just a title, but you are a "Sir" your wife is Lady and the title is passed on to your heir. 

Years ago it used to be thought of as the first step towards the nobility, you'd be created a baronet, the next rung is a baron and so on up the ladder. For some that was the case, for other families they got no further than a baronet. 


Just a title Mark? C'mon, over here in the colonies that is a big deal. BTW, who determines how far up the ladder these families get? Is it based on donations or a tithe, or maybe a certain deed for the benefit of the community?

MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 12:32:14Copy HTML

These days there is no progression like there used to be. There have been no baronetcies created since 1990 and no hereditary peerages since 1984. Today people thought worthy of an honour are given non-title honours such as the Order of the British Empire (MBE, OBE, CBE etc) or at the most a knighthood or a Life Peerage. 

Years ago if someone with a title proved themselves useful they could expect to go up a rung on the ladder. In some cases "useful" meant funding a political party or supporting a project financially. If you kept on the right side of the Crown and the government of the day progression could be yours.   

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
tommytalldog Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:5172
  • Posts:5172
  • From:USA
  • Register:08/12/2008 11:28:28

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 01:39:57Copy HTML

 Reminds me of the progression to heaven in the Roman Catholic Church.

Live respected, die regretted
MarkUK Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:4367
  • Posts:4367
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:12/11/2009 09:24:59

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:11/04/2021 05:21:42Copy HTML

The last time a Peer progressed up the ladder was in 1964 when the 1st Baron Dilhorne was "promoted" to Viscount Dilhorne. Since then no-one has progressed up the ranks of the Peerage, they stayed with the title they inherited or were first given. 

You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning. Arnold Bennett
shula Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:1808
  • Posts:1808
  • From:USA
  • Register:24/11/2008 12:06:54

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:12/04/2021 02:21:43Copy HTML

We don't have titles here but I'm sure the process is the same, be it a social or an economic ladder you're climbing.
"It is forbidden to spit on cats in plague-time." -Albert Camus-
PBA-3rd-1949 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • Rank:Diamond Member
  • Score:6385
  • Posts:6385
  • From:Canada
  • Register:09/01/2009 05:32:37

Re:Baronet

Date Posted:12/04/2021 11:28:33Copy HTML

We don't have titles here but I'm sure the process is the same, be it a social or an economic ladder you're climbing.


Not near the same girl. Even Trump found that out when he was late for his appointment with the Queen. The only think he got was hello and good-bye and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. 

Copyright © 2000- Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.